Film Junk Podcast Episode #751: 12 Monkeys + Spaceship Earth


0:00 – Intro
10:00 – Retro Review: 12 Monkeys (with Spoilers)
44:55 – Review: Spaceship Earth
1:18:20 – Headlines: AMC Bans Universal Movies
1:41:00 – Other Stuff We Watched: Blink, Bio-Dome, The Keep, The Talented Mr. Ripley, Bad Education, Devs
2:03:00 – This Week on DVD, Blu-ray and VOD
2:04:45 – Outro
2:07:45 – Spoiler Discussion: Devs

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  • MartyMcFlyJr

    Lovin the retro reviews. There’s a pretty good making of doc for 12
    Monkeys called The Hamster Factor. It’s by the same guys who made Lost
    in La Mancha, so a real doc and not the electronic press kit stuff Jay
    hates. But it actually has a moment where they talk about that ending
    scene on the plane and how not many people Gilliam had screened it too
    clued in to what that character meant. I’d say it’s worth a poke if
    you’ve never seen it.

  • Would like to humbly recommend Jay rewatch Short Cuts… could maybe even make a great group review. Not only is it a great film and one of Altman’s best, it’s an awesome Stowe role.

  • Lori Cerny

    Although I initially enjoyed watching Devs, can’t help but think it’s just style over substance. Do think I’m missing something with all the references to Christianity.

  • Indianamcclain

    Shame that the Tangerine Dream score wasn’t included on your version of The Keep. It’s my favorite Tangerine Dream score.

  • MartyMcFlyJr

    Reed made his prediction about theatres way back on episode 270 (May 17, 2010). Here’s a transcript of what he said. Starts @ approx 26 min into the episode.

    Reed: Mark my words listeners. This is a Reed Farrington prediction.
    Sean: Ok
    Reed: Two years from now theatres will not exist.
    Jay: Two years? Two years from now?
    Reed: Yes. Movie theatres will not exist. Mark my words. No one out there believes me, do you guys believe me
    Jay: I think movies in general won’t exist.
    Sean: (laughs)
    Reed: In two years?
    Jay: Yeah, we will have moved on.
    Reed: To like holographic projections?
    Jay: To just spending our time on other things.
    Reed: Video games?
    Jay: No.
    Reed: Living life?
    Sean: So so, this is your big prediction, two years there will be no movie theatres.
    Reed: That’s correct.

    Sean and Jay then ask some questions about why he thinks this, leading to a great Jay rant about the theatre going experience. Classic.

  • colin the dude

    What episode was Frank’s rant about game changers? This was no longer than a year ago, no? Now that an actual pandemic is CHANGING EVERYTHING, crickets from Frank.

  • Mike

    Another possible interpretation of the ending – you may talk about this later in the podcast but I’ve paused it to type this out

    The scientists have sent Bruce Willis in to START the pandemic. He’s the one that gives Brad Pitt the idea to create a mass virus in the first place. He connects them together and then on the second pass back through time they give him a pardon – and decide he doesn’t have to be a slave any more. Key here is the authoritarian rule the scientists have in the future in the first place. They want to rule this way.

    Dr.Jones on the plane says she’s in INSURANCE. She wants to insure that the flu spreads. Bruce Willis shouldn’t even be at the airport, they’ve let him loose as per his request and by accident they’ve arrived at the right place at the right time. I have no idea though it was hard to keep track in this film

  • Nuno

    We’re all thinking the same thing, will there be a 90’s erotic thriller premium?

  • Sean

    I feel like Jay did ask Frank if COVID was a game changer at some point and he agreed that it was. I may be misremembering though. It may have also been an “off-air” conversation.

  • Sean

    My version did have the Tangerine Dream score, but at the expense of video quality I guess. It is a great score though.

  • Sean

    Seems like the next logical step!

  • Nuno

    Jay can continue the Stowe streak since she made a few. Not to mention that Paul Verhoeven was the auteur behind Basic Instinct and we could all use some more classic Verhoeven reviews. For some reason I thought there was a Verhoeven premium.

  • Nuno

    BTW are you deliberately trolling Frank by using cover art with “Twelve” instead of “12”?

  • Sean

    I would never do such a thing. Although it is also an unofficial Mondo-style poster, which I’m sure he hates. :)

  • Jr

    Really bummed that I’m probably not going to see Tenat in July. Don’t think I’d go $75 for VOD though.

  • TimC

    Re: Devs discussion

    Like Frank, I have also been thinking a lot about the nature of reality, recently. One thing that has motivated it, for me, is Stephen Wolfram’s (Wolfram Alpha guy) recent project, which he describes as a “path to the fundamental theory of physics”.

    An idea in his work regarding determinism, that sorta works for me, is the possibility that the universe is “deterministic” but “computationally irreducible”. Meaning, even though things happen because of some basic rules about how objects interact [and couldn’t have happened any other way], the interactions are so complex that they could not be computed ahead of time; so, no predictions are possible on a large scale. Maybe this idea could help Frank, like me, stay sane in quarantine solitude.

    So, I guess this is my TV recommendation for Frank:

    I really enjoyed Sean and Frank going deep in their discussion, thanks guys!

  • Tim

    re: “I work in insurance”… I think she is saying that because they are trying to insure humanity survives.

  • Wintle

    Here’s my take on Devs.
    It seemed like the show was exploring determinism vs. free will, but it was firmly on the side of free will long before the finale. We see multiple universes represented throughout the series (the car crash, outside the lecture hall). This isn’t an opinion expressed by a character, it’s shown as an objective fact. The show itself is saying “Who do you believe; these people spending 8 hours adamantly insisting that determinism is the only possibility, or your lying eyes?”
    To be fair, I, too, spent the entire series thinking that determinism was a possibility, and I think the reason for that is almost all the conversation surrounding this debate came from two obsessive true believers of determinism, Forest and Katie. Everyone else is at least open to the possibility of free will, but they end up getting shut down by Forest and Katie every time it comes up. They monopolized the conversation. You asked why no one ran a simple experiment to settle the issue, but that was never the point. They weren’t trying to settle the question of free will vs. determinism. They were only trying to prove what they already knew in their hearts to be true, and damn any evidence to the contrary.
    (I think it’s interesting that some viewers, like Forest and Katie, believe that determinism is the only possibility and therefore can’t wrap their heads around the ending of the show)
    (Also, I think that aspect can be added to the commentary on tech giants. The insistence that reality will conform to their view and not the other way around)
    As for the the idea that Lily was somehow special, that was also a delusion of Forest and Katie. So far as I can remember, we see only two scenes where people (other than Forest and Katie) see their future and have a chance of changing it. Forest and Katie wouldn’t allow looking into the future, presumably because they were afraid that someone would pierce their delusion. When the devs see themselves one second into the future, they don’t have enough time to process what they’re seeing and change their reactions. Lily, on the other hand, has minutes to formulate a response. It could have been anybody. Forest and Katie were just dressing it all up in some sort of mythology.
    As for why we didn’t see wildly divergent alternate universes, my guess is that what they were doing was drawing from alternate universes that were nearest to their own both in structural differences and in time to create a composite. For example, Forest’s daughter. They had incomplete data for their universe alone, but, if you were to draw more data from a universe that only had the slightest deviation from ours (like an extra hair on her head) and was created at the start of your viewing (and therefore that extra hair hadn’t yet had time to cause major ramifications to that universe), then you could add more detail. Obviously at some point, when Forest and Katie weren’t watching, someone would boot up some What If scenarios, like what if the Axis had won or JFK had survived. They never had the chance so we never saw it until the end, when we do see various universes.
    (I also think that the reason Forest’s daughter hasn’t aged when we see Forest and Lily have their conversation at the end is that in that universe she was born later, making that particular universe Forest’s preferred one)
    Anyway, despite all that I admit that, like Frank, I enjoyed it up to a point. There are a few things that I had trouble with.

  • Beat_C

    thanks for that!