Film Junk Podcast Episode #724: Ad Astra + Rambo: Last Blood

podcast724

0:00 – Intro: Reed’s Seaway Cinema Experience
25:30 – Review: Ad Astra
59:30 – Review: Rambo: Last Blood
1:26:45 – Hot Topic: Joker Controversy
2:14:45 – This Week on DVD and Blu-ray
2:22:20 – Outro
2:24:55 – Spoiler Discussion: Ad Astra

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  • Jay Cheel

    Reed has just provided wonderful examples of both the Straw Man Fallacy and the False Equivalence Fallacy.

  • Reed Farrington

    How can a study show that movies “alone” are not enough to turn someone violent?

    Okay, you and Jay win. I cannot prove that violent media is detrimental to society. Let’s continue enjoying our violent media.

  • Stevie P

    Yes, Reed is right that movies can encourage/inspire/facilitate violence, but Jay is also correct that they only do so to people who are otherwise violent and conditioned by other sources.

    But I think this misses the point of the controversy — No one is objecting to Joker under the assumption that it will create psychopaths. People are objecting to it because they fear it will inspire, empower, and normalize/humanize psychopaths.

  • Stevie P

    This is insane. There’s noting dissonant about appreciating fictional depictions of violence that underscore a non-violent/socially useful message (Tarantino is a great example of this, and the tension between the two values is exactly what has allowed his success — it’s an INTERESTING conflict of ideas). You can still be against real-world violence, acknowledge that violent entertainment can contribute to that real-world violence, but nonetheless sanction that entertainment under the theory that the vast majority of consumers will not be led to violence because of it. It’s essentially a utilitarian balancing of the usefulness of art with art’s detrimental effects on a tiny minority of the population, and coming out in favor of the former.

  • Beat_C

    well, the portrayal of the co-pilot was abysmal. he seemed like like the biggest loser – how on earth did he become co-pilot?. that and the fact that brad pitt handled the landing for him should probably make us feel better about pitt being responsible for the crew’s deaths.

  • Beat_C

    but what is “violent media”? does a movie or book that has violence as a topic and handles it thoughtfully and interestingly, but also doesn’t hide said violence (e.g. J.G. Ballard) also fall into this category?

  • Beat_C

    tarantino is a great example! doesn’t reed LOVE tarantino? he’s been known and also criticized for how he depicted violence, e.g. how daisy domergue was treated in “the hateful eight”:

  • Nic

    Bourdieu is among the most cited authors in the humanities today. Depending on what rankings you look up, he will always be in the top 10 to top 3. I know that you prefer empirical/psychological studies but I think he could be interesting for you nontheless. You’ve got to actually finish his books and read more than 20 pages to get a grasp on his concepts though ;)

  • OsoDuck

    How is Plato not bound up with European culture? Are you joking?

    So the guillotine has nothing to do with the establishment of European liberalism? Give me a break.

    You’re right, liberal was the wrong term for Hitler in terms of geography, but left-wing and socialist are not the wrong terms. Although, it is just arguing semantics. Liberals are left-wing after all, and the liberalism of the nineteenth century leads to the socialist/fascist tyrannies of the twentieth century. Fascism, of course, is simply socialism light, where some of the trappings of capitalism are retained for the nostalgia.

    Thankfully, I have the left leaning independent.co.uk. to back me up.

    “It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too.”

    “The claim that Hitler cannot really have been a socialist because he advocated and practised genocide suggests a monumental failure, then, in
    the historical memory. Only socialists in that age advocated or practised genocide, at least in Europe, and from the first years of his political career Hitler was proudly aware of the fact.”

    Here is the full article, which is a fascinating read indeed:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

  • Reed Farrington

    Regarding your first statement, my problem was with Jay’s statement that anything can cause violence, but I think violent media is more problematic than non-violent media. When you say “conditioned by other sources,” I think you have to include violent media in the “other sources.”

    Sean admitted that none of us had seen Joker, so our discussion was limited to what we thought peeps would be talking about. After they have seen the movie, I’m sure the guys will discuss how Joker humanizes psychopaths.

    Yes, I don’t agree with censorship for the reasons you state, but I think we’re fooling ourselves into believing that violent media isn’t harmful.

    The excuse we non-violent peeps who enjoy violent media use is that we know the difference between fantasy and reality, and would never do violent things in real-life, but I personally think that anyone who enjoys violent media is psychologically damaged in an “evolved” society. I know through the course of history until today, it’s human nature to be violent, but it will lead to our undoing.

  • Reed Farrington

    Yes.

  • Reed Farrington

    Yes, I love watching violence. I admit there is something wrong with that. I agree with Stevie’s utilitarian balancing argument.

  • Reed Farrington

    In answer to those who think I took a weird moral stance in my “argument” with Jay, let me just say that I think it’s beneficial for peeps to argue against what they believe in order to gain a broader perspective. You should always be looking for evidence that contradicts your beliefs.

    Also I believe it’s important to challenge your friends even though I’m not much of a challenge to Jay. (No hard feelings, Jay! I can’t lose my best friend (and provider of free stuff).)

  • Obviously you have to return for next week’s episode, Reed.

    We need to know if you’re now a sociopath after watching Joker.

  • B MP Rooney

    I think a really crucial element to the discussion here is that Sean, the primary juicer, cut the show short. Here he is trying to get the Joker controversy going and he stops it short! I really don’t need another April fools debacle like with Jay!

  • B MP Rooney

    I also liked when Sean mentioned he liked Dick Tracey, and was therefore a Dick head. Not needed for the gloss. But good stuff.

  • ThisGuy01

    Frank’s belligerently playing up the worst hot takes bit has gotten old.

  • Lior

    I have a purely technical question. It seems that I am unable to rewind the player embedded in the page, where I was able to do it in the past. When I try to move the thingy backwards I get a notice that I need to upgrade to Mixcloud Premium for 5.99$ a month (???) to “listen without limits”.

    I don’t really use itunes much so I mostly listen through the embedded player because it has all the timestamps close-by and handy, but I usually don’t listen to it all in one go, hence the need to be able to rewind.

    Any ideas?

  • Sean

    I don’t think Mixcloud had allowed rewinding for a while now, but I have embedded using Libsyn’s player a few times when I wasn’t able to upload to Mixcloud and that does allow rewinding. To be honest, there is no great reason to keep using Mixcloud except that we’ve done it for so long now and have a bunch of followers on that platform. Maybe it’s time to dump it.

  • Lior

    Thanks, Sean. At least for me the rewind option is important unless I stop each time on a timestamp, which I’m not always able to do. The mp3 file is also problematic in that regard. One solution that I found was to just keep the webpage open all the time, but that is not always possible.
    Guess I’m in the minority because I rarely listen to the show on the go and I’m also not an Apple guy :-) so I use the embedded player in the website almost exclusively.

  • bobsponge42

    Frank is a great addition to the show.

  • gibson8

    ‘People of color’? You would be slammed for deploying that sort of intersectional terminology in British academic circles. I am genuinely curious to know why it is acceptable in the States? Is this the same sort of mentality that happilty uses ‘retarded’ to explain anything that is disappoiinting or confusing or dumb?https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/02/people-of-color-phrase-history-racism.html
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-widatalla-poc-intersectionality-race-20190428-story.html

  • gibson8

    Hate to be that guy but ‘Downtin’ is the correct pronunciation, Frank. I would love to hear you try Magdalene, Norwich, Cockburn and St John again. Is this what all these greying automatons are calling this apology for imperial servitude?