Film Junk Podcast Episode #564: Captain America: Civil War

podcast564

0:00 – Intro
16:26 – Review: Captain America: Civil War
1:33:50 – Headlines: Justin Lin to Direct Space Jam 2, Alden Ehrenreich is Young Han Solo
1:51:08 – Other Stuff We Watched: Chappie, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, De Palma, Contemporary Color, Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru, Special Correspondents, Zootopia
2:17:50 – Junk Mail: Revisiting and Ranking Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Changing Letterboxd Favourite Films, Logging Your Own Movie on Letterboxd, Ghostbusters 3D Trailer Effect, Buying a House
2:35:40 – This Week on DVD and Blu-ray
2:43:30 – Outro
2:49:00 – Spoiler Discussion: Captain America: Civil War

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  • Essie

    I find it beyond frustrating that Marvel movies get defended by people saying “well these are just for people who like blockbusters!”. Critic proof, I guess?

    thank you for show! :)

  • Andrija

    While I don’t like these Marvel movies, I’ll never tire of listening Dax talk about them.

  • devolutionary

    Dax, rest assured, my soul cockles were touched. And Vulcan nerve pinch tattoo? Skull cap? Is Reed certifiably “cool” now? Or did he legally change his name to Gerry?

    Jay, I’m sure Gamble didn’t want to cramp your style w/ the older ladies.

    I know it’s summer schedule but I could use a break from Marvelitis right now.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CER43McW0AIbY16.png:large

  • Bandit Manatee

    On the subject of Star Wars spinoff ideas Imagine a comedy film in the vein of a mighty wind or spinal tap but following the band in Jabbas palace. The blue elephant guy already looks hilarious just imagine if he was voiced by Seth rogen.

  • theo

    Great to have Dax back

  • Information

    At the end of iron man 3 Tony removes the shrapnel from his chest and is healthy. Tony keeps the arc reactor as a decoration. Also Caps love interests backstory is from the comics.

  • Larry Morgan

    I really liked Civil War. I thought the action scenes were filmed in a very kinetic way that had some tension to it. They manage to make people waving their arms around wearing costumes look somewhat believable. Even Scarlet Witch or w/e, circling her hands around. I’m surprised so many people seem to really not like it, at least via social media. The middle of the movie has a bit of lull, especially introducing Spider Man, which made me cringe the whole time. Anyways.

  • Jonny Ashley

    Received my Film Junk 500 flash drive! Love you guys, thanks for going through the pain in the ass.

  • Dave

    “working in my Dad’s comic book warehouse…”

    Dax needs to elaborate on this. Maybe he already has on a previous episode, or maybe it was just some joke, but what was up with that throw away line? It sounds like Dax had the best childhood ever.

  • Indianamcclain

    After seeing Force Awakens on Blu-ray it’s become increasingly clear to me that it’s the most middle of the road Star Wars film. Aside from the death of a major character, I have no strong feelings for it. However, it does bother me that a lot of the arcs, and accomplishments from the OT were brushed aside so that they could continue to make new stories.

  • ReelJunkie

    The reason why Tony Stark sided with the government is because he doesn’t trust himself with power. He shut down his weapon’s program in the first Iron Man, then he fucked up by creating Ultron in AoU and all that weighs on his conscience.

    The reason why Rogers doesn’t trust any body governing over the Avengers is because of how Shield turned out to be Hydra in TWS.

    That’s how I saw the partitioning anyway.

  • Anthony

    Sharon Carter was Peggy Carter’s niece in Winter Soldier too. She’s a real comic character:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Carter

  • It is always a joy to hear that Dax is back on the show! :)

  • I don’t always agree with Dax, but I’m glad to hear a differing opinion and I love that he doesn’t let the other guys affect his ratings. And he’s infectiously positive and funny, can’t wait for that vibecast (sorry Sean).

  • Catherine

    I don’t understand why he hasn’t been added as a regular yet.

  • J. Thunder

    I have hope Rian Johnson will provide a further examination behind Luke’s self exile. I find it hard to believe the hero of the OT would sit out of the action after five star systems were destroyed.

  • Samb

    Ironically, Frank’s criticism of the franchise can be re-stated as it having an over-reliance on trilogy cred.

  • Indianamcclain

    That was another problem I had. The Luke that we know would never do something like that.

  • the new Looney Tunes show is on Canadian Netflix and it is actually great. They CGI Wile E. and Road Runner for some inexplicable reason but the rest of the show is traditional animation. I have only seen first four episodes but what I have seen has been genuinely funny.

  • Sean

    I actually did notice that the other day. Figured it was all CG but I’ll have to give it a look either way.

  • Sean

    Thanks for confirming!

  • Sean

    Lots of people have pointed this out, thanks for clarifying. Obviously we all forgot.

  • schizopolis

    I think we learned that Frank would sell his buds down the river, if they broke the law. Frank, if Dax came to you and said he murdered jag-off, you’re supposed to say “I’ll bring the shovel”.

  • Want to know what’s extremely annoying? The insufferable pricks who write wikipedia articles about these movies insist on using the characters actual names (as opposed to their superhero names), making it even MORE convoluted and confusing for those of us trying to read the plot synopsis to keep up with the Film Junk reviews.

  • J. Thunder

    I agree. I believe Abrams admitted they had to keep Luke out of the movie because he would easily overshadow the new characters.

  • B.J.

    It´s an absolute miracle that Frank didn´t yet rat out Jay to every single local store that is routinely scammed by that guy.

  • Rorschach’s Diner

    Correct but she wasn’t called Sharon Carter in that movie. That is what the guys are talking about.

  • Rorschach’s Diner

    I think you guys nailed it with this one. Rejoice.

  • schizopolis

    By the way, thumbs up on your Civil War review. Finally, a podcast with a leveled head on an overrated film. Even Marvel fanboy, Dax was hesitant to give it love. Frank was spot-on about the COPO conveniently choosing to praise this movie, while lambasting BvS. The unreasonably high Rotten Tomatoes ratings for MCU films seems to prove they are critiqued within their own bubble. Say what you want about BvS, but it’s not formulaic and it takes risks, unlike Civil War.

  • Indianamcclain

    Only other review I’ve heard is on the Slashfilmcast, and I was rolling my eyes at how much they were gushing over this film.

  • Sara Bulloch

    I find it funny you guys can’t understand why Bucky has been the center of two films, its because of two words: Fan Fiction. It’s pretty unfortunate but probably true. I’m sure some market analyst at Marvel did some data mining and found the massive amount of fan fiction for the Marvel cinematic universe, and the solid niche shipping Steve/Bucky and just rolled with it hardcore. No need for flashbacks solidifying their friendship or anything, because for teenage girls aged 14-25, the scene where Steve holds a helicopter back just to make Bucky stay, is romantic no matter what.

  • Anthony

    But she was credited as such when the movie was released. This wasn’t a retroactive decision made just for Civil War.

  • Sloth

    First of all I am a huge fan of film junk and I have listened every week since 2012. I love you guys and respect your opinion. I do however have some thoughts in regards to your review of Civil War…
    The point of the airport fight was for team iron man to capture team cap for breaking the law and return to general Ross to be prosecuted. And Team cap was trying to escape to get on the ship. And when the fight ensues these heroes are not trying to murder each other you are not supposed to feel that there is going to be dire consequences like a superhero dying. Then at the end of the fight War Machine is crippled for life by vision, which shows the consequences. And you might think that is lame they should have killed him but that is not the point of the movie the point is to enjoy seeing a large group of heroes interact and fight with each other. I feel that they are going to kill a lot of characters in Avengers 3 because there will be a bigger threat.
    Jay says iron mans motivation for joining the side of government was poorly invented just for this film when that’s not true at all in iron man 3 he has
    panic attacks about the alien invasion happening again and in Avengers 2 he creates Ultron so there would be no more death or invasions by Heroes or villains
    Jay says the only reason that they had a funeral for Peggy Carter was to give more attention to her TV show when that’s not true at all. That character has had a role in every film in the cap trilogy and she appeared in Avengers 2 to help further caps character arch. She is important to cap and caps story and this is a Captain America movie
    Frank absolutely despises the fact that they set up cap 3 at the end of cap 2 by showing where characters are at the end of that movie when I thought Frank’s whole deal was “Trilogy Cred”. And if they did not set it up frank would have been complaining even more.
    Frank says he hates everything about the character of Bucky. So no matter what they do with the character Frank is going to hate him. I did not find Bucky that interesting in Cap 2 either but I agree with Sean that they improve him in this movie and show the tragic angle to his character and I thought the performance was better in civil war. Also at the beginning of the review Frank says the film was okay and at the end he calls it shit.
    Jay said something crazy which was the only thing people like about the new Marvel movies are the action scenes and they have no time for the characters to “Hang Out” When they constantly do have scenes like that. There is an entire scene in Avengers 2 dedicated to the avengers having fun drinking and picking up Thor’s hammer. Before that there was a
    party scene with the characters interacting with each other and jay called that scene terrible in his review of that movie
    I do not feel that this movie is Pretentious or self indulgent by including a large amount of characters or having a big story because it is just doing what comic books have done for years which have lots of characters interact with one another in a big story.
    I do not understand why when a Marvel film comes out the film junk crew scoffs at how the only goal of the film is to make money. Jay feels the need to point this out every time they review a marvel movie or a Pixar movie or the Star Wars EP 7 review. It’s not like Film Junk only reviews small independent story driven films cause every week they review the latest big studio release and the main goal of those films are to make money and even when you review all the blockbusters you never point this out. Only when reviewing Marvel.
    Jay says in X-Men DOFP you learn a lot About Quicksilver through his introduction and that never happens in this film when I feel you learn a lot about Peter Parker through his intro. You learn he is a poor kid that works hard in school and he cares for his aunt and he stays true to his former self even when he gets super powers. You understand the character completely throughout one scene of him interacting with Tony Stark.

  • Bill

    Tons of things in this review don’t really feel like real criticisms. I’ll touch on a few:

    Cap had his 5-minute Mike Yamagita moment with Peg Carter’s death that gives closure to her character and gives Cap the extra push he needed to decide not to sign the dotted line. What is wrong with this scene? It doesn’t drag on and Cap says goodbye to the only other person he knew from his old life (other than Buck). I think it’s ridiculous to just pass off as an ad for the Agent Carter series.

    I do not understand the “televisual” complaint. Do Marvel films need to look like an Inarritu flick? They hit a middle ground between television and film due to their quasi-episodic nature, but i don’t see anything wrong with that (it’s a bit like the Harry Potter series). Dax brought up a good point about the end of Empire and how it is similar to how CW ties up. I don’t see the problem.

    The Bucky story is about brotherhood. He was family to Steve since childhood, stuck by him through the death of his parents, defended him from bullies and fought fucking nazis with him. When Steve found out that his best friend was still alive and had been tortured and whored out to do dirty deeds for decades, he was not gonna abandon him. That’s not what a soldiers does to his comrades, that’s not what family does. That’s why Cap abandoned his principles to take orders, and i’m not sure why there is confusion about that. It’s all laid out in the 3 films.

    Tony feels like he has to adult for the first time in his life. He’s lost Pepper, he’s being blamed for the Ultron fiasco and fallout, and his philanthropic efforts do not make him feel better. All he cares about is keeping the band together after endangering their unity because of the fractures he created in Age of Ultron. The only time he seems sunny is when he meets Peter and sees a young genius like he was in his youth (sweet scene IMO). He probably had more development in Civil War than any other films outside of the first Iron Man.

    The airport scene was a football game. Nobody was trying to kill each other, it was only about keeping the other side from crossing the line. Nice way to showcase some cool action scenes.

    Villain was cool. Just a common man with a mission, analogous to the insurgents created today from civilian casualties.

    Jay is a little hard to trust when it comes to film franchises like this. He’s obviously uninterested in the source materials (whether that be comic books or Harry Potter books or whatever), and that’s perfectly fine. But when he fails to see connective tissue between the films and blames characters for lacking depth or motivation because he forgets the previous films that establishes those things, it’s a bit unfair. It’s a big Marvel Universe, and the people who are loving Civil War are the ones who have been engaged in the storytelling since Iron Man and genuinely enjoy the genre.

    If you’re the type of person who never wants to stick around for the stingers after the credits, these films are not for you.

  • Kenneth Serenyi

    I have a strong suspicion that Jay is just playing on the strong emotions of the nerdy fanboys like me. Jay tends to answer the criticisms later in the show that he brings up early in the show. I think it’s impossible for Jay to like the cheese of John Carpenter and of movies like Superman 3 without understanding why other people enjoy the cheese of these Marvel movies. I say Jay is using his vast film intelligence for evil! EVIL I say!

  • Mike

    Frank you thick dumb cunt

  • David Sarnecki

    Let me take a wild stab in the dark.

    They didn’t like it?

  • David Sarnecki

    LOL! Not formulaic?! They literally do the Death of Superman, two movies in when it’s completely unearned, simply BECAUSE it’s in the comics. They don’t take risks at all.

  • kent88

    Can I be obnoxious and complain?

    The fact that the main reviews (including the spoiler discussions) are getting increasingly longer is a step in the wrong direction IMO. I mean, 2 hours of CIVIL WAR talk? A bloated movie deserves a bloated review, I guess ;)

  • Dax Gordine

    Easy bud, no need to be disrespectful and rude.

  • schizopolis

    Uhhh…appropriating source material doesn’t define a “formula”. I don’t think you fully understand the concept of the word.

  • Nobody

    Review KILL ZONE 2

    People are blowing their loads over the big battle in Captain America: Civil War, which is understandable, but the prison riot sequence in Kill Zone 2 also deserves tons of love from movie geeks. There are only a handful of reviews, but it’s currently at 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, and we all know that RT score means everything.

    Dax mentioned Jay at Cannes, but how about a Jay Cheel Oscar acceptance speech for best documentary?

  • Tony D’Amico

    I just wanted to say congrats to Jay with his new film. And yes Sean, you should have listened to your lawyer and not reveal that you guys weren’t paying attention. I was gob to comment on the Shasta being removed in IM3 so it wasn’t a death blow cap was delivering. I realize this had been mentioned already in previous posts. So no need to comment.
    Another great episode starting Dax as well, always good to hear his opinion since he never comes off sounding pretentious when criticizing blockbusters that ate meant to be fun. Sorry if that sounds like a dig at you guys, i understand if you don’t enjoy stuff like this.

  • xenobuzz

    Sean, Frank, Jay, THANK YOU. I was also NOT impressed with this film at all. It wasn’t bad, but it certainly was not very good either. I have always had great confidence in my opinions, but it still feels good to hear my views echoed in your discussion. I found myself nodding and exclaiming my agreement with many of the points made.

    I have posted my own review on my blog. It’s only four paragraphs.

    http://xenobuzz.blogspot.com/2016/05/captain-america-civil-war-review.html

    While I’m somewhat baffled by all the praise, I guess I really shouldn’t be surprised considering how many other scenarios involve masses of consumers bolting down bowls of shit and calling it ambrosia. The way the great uneducated and unwashed are lapping up the sphincteral excretions of Mr. Drumpf being one of many terrifying examples.

    I guess that’s kinda off topic, but I think the point is valid. Anyway, thanks for making me feel like I’m not alone in not liking this movie. It’s a small thing, but it feels good.

    On a lighter note, I don’t know if anyone has said this before, but I really dig the triumvirate of distinct personalities you have on your show. It reminds me of the Kirk, Spock, McCoy dynamic. I guess I would cast Jay as Kirk, given how he seems cool and in control most of the time, but then his lascivious side will suddenly unzip itself!

    I would cast Frank in the McCoy role in the way that he and Jay often verbally joust with and challenge each other. Frank wears his heart on his sleeve, and I respect that as I am also always as you meet me.

    Sean, of course, is Spock. Always calm, always the arbiter of the discussion, always trying to steer the ship forward through placid waters and on schedule.

    Thanks heaps, gents! Keep up the great work!

  • Adam

    What risks? Killing Superman? Only to basically say “jk he’s coming back” before the credits roll? You’re welcome to your opinion but I don’t see much risk in “killing” supes. Now I will say they’re taking a risk by rushing into a JL movie(s) – I’ll give you that one.

  • schizopolis

    You’re focusing on plot. That’s secondary to me. This risk DC took twice was Zack Snyder and his aesthetic, which is cynical, bleak, nihilistic and ultra-violent. Those are the worlds he creates. In BvS, he doubles down on Nolan’s TDK theme of giving us “not the heroes we need, but the heroes we deserve”. Snyder basically portrays Batman as Dick Cheney.

    So now we get reactions like “not my Superman”, “not my Batman”, “too dark and serious” and “too violent”. To some comic book fanboys and general moviegoers, these are legit opinions. But as a fan of cinema, I think it’s a bit closed-minded because there are big themes and ideas in the movie. I may not always agree with them, but the filmmaker’s intentions are clearly there.

  • disqus_lIQz6uzUSQ

    Fully agree with all the points above. Really love this podcast but the guys obviously just do not like (for the most part) anything that Marvel is doing with their movies. Frank says Marvel takes no chances and faults the movies for being made by committee. However given the decades of comic book history and the fact that Marvel has spent the last decade interweaving tons of characters throughout the different phases of their movies how can you not have a committee approach to these films. I would also say Marvel has taken some chances (interpretation of the Mandarin, death of quicksilver, the whole guardians movie in and of itself) but at the end of the day, they are still trying to remain true to the spirit of the comics, which is what the audience obviously wants and likes. At some point when you have this much critical acclaim, $180M in opening box office and an “A” cinema score, its hard to make the argument that the movie is getting a free pass…he should just admit that these movies aren’t for him (although for Frank to give CW and BvS the same star rating is pretty ridiculous given what a complete narrative mess the latter was). And if he doesn’t think the new Star Wars movies and one-offs don’t have huge committees driving them, he’s on crack.
    Also thank you for pointing out Jay’s televisual comment. I thought I was the only one who didn’t get the complaint. Is it the episodic nature or is he saying the actual cinematography and direction makes it look televisual? If the latter, I don’t see it, especially as there have been a ton of different directors (some well established) making these films…will be interesting to see if he has the same complaint with Coogler’s Black Panther.
    Sean, as usual, didn’t add much, but he does a great job moderating the podcast.

  • schizopolis

    I guess the “ad” for the Agent Carter TV series in Civil War didn’t work. The show just got canned today. I guess moviegoers enjoyed watching the character die just a little too much.

  • Regarding the young Harrison Ford discussion, have any of you seen “Age of Adeline?” There is a flashback sequence in which Ford’s character remembers himself in younger days. The actor they got is uncanny…

    https://youtu.be/f33h8p9Bacc

  • Mister Quigley Jr.

    Watching these stunted adult fanboys get all passive-aggressive toward our guys is much more entertaining than the shitty film itself.