Did anyone here actually find the sex scene funny, I did, but I feel the why’d you stop motherfucker is a bit of a cop out which Hill admits too in a interview

http://www.avclub.com/articles/jody-hill,26484/1/

I meant to say the /film filmcast, not Row Three…

Observe and Report is dark and wacky. In tone, it’s sort of like Death to Smoochy, or the Cable Guy. It’s not for everybody… but I really liked it and consider my theatrical viewing of it money well spent.

But Rus, you should be listening to the Row Three podcast.

Kurt, I already admitted to cheating on Greg, Sean and Jay don’t you dare try to get me to come over to your place and get me drunk on your film flavored wine – that’s film rape and its not o.k., anywhere! U got it buster!?

Seriously, I do need to spend more time on your site.

That’s the big problem I have with some of the feminist response to O & R. As the scene stands now in the film, they claim that it is clear date rape. Farris character is obviously a participant in the act up to a certain point, but these feminist state “whenever the female looses the ability to make a coherent choice in the matter it becomes date rape”. (listen to /filmcast) How are we men supposed to define were the woman should not be trusted in her judgment!? They seem to want and dump this scene in to the same group as one showing a guy slipping the women drugs without her knowing. And with this line of thinking the feminist could claim that the sex in the other Seth Rogan film Knocked Up is date rape! The female there was clearly making choices affect by to much alcohol – it is the plot point of the movie! They also don’t bring up the point, as you do here, that Farris’s character did not feel she was date raped. And if anything I think Jody Hill did a good job of showing Farris character is of mindset that lives this way – lifestyle of massive amounts of drugs and sexual activity.

See Kim Voynar on this. Her take is pretty level headed on the failed logic mainstream-feminist approach to date-rape: http://www.moviecitynews.com/columnists/voynar/2009/090415.html

“There’s an inherent contradiction that a lot of feminists seem to prefer not to discuss at all: if we say that a woman who is inebriated by her own choice is therefore no longer responsible for the sexual choices she might make while in that state, is it fair to argue that the man she’s with, if he’s also inebriated, should be responsible for making that choice for her?

Would writers who argue that the sex scene in Observe and Report is date rape also be willing to argue that if a man has sex when he’s “too drunk” to make a sober decision, he no longer has responsibility for the consequences of that sex, such as pregnancy or spreading a STD? How can we seriously argue that a man who gets chooses to get too drunk and has unprotected sex IS responsible for the consequence of that choice (and even demand that he pay child support for the resulting infant, should the woman choose not to abort the pregnancy — a choice over which he has no control) on the one hand, while arguing on the other that if a woman chooses to get herself too drunk to make a sober decision, the full responsibility for that choice must also fall on the man?

Men are not the enemy, and I grow weary of the twisting of ideas of female sexuality and female empowerment into an ugly worldview where the women are always right, the men are always wrong, and women want all of the freedom they see men as having while refusing to accept the responsibility that goes along with it. “

lets cut to the bone why this really matters. beyond similar situations like drinking and driving, etc. everyday in America, men are being convicted of rape in whatever form it is and the very fact that many women have the attitude that when a woman “loses the ability to decide if she wants to proceed” then rape is taking place is extremely unfair and hard to define. All sexual encounters are basically a he said, she said situation (beyond signs of physical violence) and this idea lots of women have is scary.

from a website, The charge of “date rape” refers to instances of rape when the accused offender and victim have a pre-existing relationship or, in some cases, when the victim was a companion of the accused offender at the alleged time of the crime. Charges of rape are often based largely on the testimony of the accuser and defendant. Often, there are no material witnesses or physical evidence. In the case of date rape, the accuser may even be the spouse of the defendant.

In such cases, the preparation of one’s defense requires careful pre-trial investigative work. Often, criminal history, psychological profiles, possible motives, character witnesses and other circumstantial information can be obtained to keep these cases from going to trial.

Rape charges can be difficult to prove. An aggressive, skilled defense and early intervention can be quite effective in these cases.

I think it is funny that there is so much Internet hubbub over a film that opened wide yet will be out of theaters in three weeks.(Seriously, the funniest line in the article is the line calling this a “hit?” – um, no a hit is a film that a lot of people go and see and makes a lot of money. This is what you call a film that may get its money back when it goes to DVD – maybe.

I also find it interesting that the North Carolina boys got their deals because they were so hilarious and now that not that many people are laughing at their jokes their defenders are claiming Hill’s flicks are deeper than that.

Emperor’s new clothes. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fact is,

“They are considered aware enough to make the conscious decision to get behind the wheel of a vehicle at the risk of their own life and the lives of others. They are considered selfish, self-absorbed and irresponsible.

I guess the big difference here is sex takes two to tango”

While I’d also agree that the universal hatred of date rape has probably over-mitigated the other persons responsibility, yeah – the big difference is that a car can’t take advantage of a human being, a car can’t choose to stop what its doing.

When its two people in a sexual scenario, they have a responsibility to each other. On the road, a drunk person behind the wheel has a responsibility to well… everyone.

“Rape is not simply about sex but about the abuse of a power imbalance — when one person is drunk and the other is not, the sober person is in a position of power and control in the situation.”

this is the bullshit I’m talking about. date rape as a term started after increased situations of guys slipping drugs in to women’s drinks to take advantage of them and in situations were couples that knew each other, one of the parties forces the other party to conduct sexual activities. Now women, like Liz, want to bend those ideas to cover situations were the women VOLUNTARILY drinks or uses drunks to the point their decision making process is foggy and the man is to blame if the next morning the women feels wronged. Its a bullshit, cover our ass, feminist rhetoric. Classic, we want all rights and privileges afforded to men, unless, we abuse controlled substances then you men need to monitor our actions.

And yes, Ronnie is drinking too in the scene from the film you have never seen.

As a sidenote, I found a Sexual Assault Bingo Card. For those unfamiliar with bingo cards of this kind, each squares includes a phrase or statement that often get used during a discussion on a subject as a means of diverting discussion away from the victims or blame from the guilty. Naturally, a paraphrase of “you were drunk, it’s your fault” is on there.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i281/MidnightLouise/bingo3.jpg

I’m hoping posting a singular link is enough to get me through the spam filter.

Liz,

The thousands of serial rapists that frequent filmjunk.com are not going to “see the light” after reading your rambling, inane comments. You are wasting your time and valuable internet space.

“If a sober Rogen had got Heigl drunk in that movie (or vice versa), then we’d have a date rape debate on our hands.”

Yes, and one half of the participants would be absolute, friggin retards. Buying a girl/guy drinks does not make you a rapist if they happen to wake up the next morning and regret their decision to engage in consensual sex. Shut-up.

If a man/woman has an honest and reasonable belief that the person they intend to have sex with has consented to the intercourse, it’s not rape. HONEST and REASONABLE.

There is no such thing as a retroactive rape. You cannot wake up the next morning and say to yourself “wait-a-second self, I was sooooo drunk last night and I think we might have had sex and I don’t remember consenting.” Toatally, 100% irrelevant.

Now please. For the love of God, HUSH!

“Rus. It’s bullshit, cover our ass, misogynistic rhetoric.”

you sure seemed o.k. with throwing misogynistic in my face, thanks.

“everything to do with asober man making a terrible choice in the moment he decides to take advantage of a woman who does not (or cannot reasonably) consent to intercourse.”

Liz, you are the only one talking about this scenario. We (I) have been talking about scenes in Knocked Up, Observe and Report, and drunk fucking in general the whole time. Its unfair to accuse us of misreading your back and forth definitions.

Go to go, taking a busload of school girls to see Crank 2 and need to stop at the wine shop.

@ It disappoints me that there are not more women engaged in this discussion on this site, but then given how conversation has turned, I’m not surprised.

There’s an unfortunate streak of hostility to women in this thread.

Rus, you object to being called a misogynist but I can’t feel much sympathy for you since you throw the censorship accusation in Liz’s face. Frankly I think her accusation has more basis, since I can’t find anywhere where Liz advocated censorship. II’ll apologize if I’m wrong, just show me the example.

I don’t go for any argument about weak willed roganites going out to date raping wantonly because they laughed at a scene in a movie.
But that doesn’t mean there’s not a legitimate debate to be had about the content and message of the scene in question.

Wintle, I’m glad someone appreciated it. I expected to get a bunch of grief.

I’m sorry Rus and Shut-up Ed but you do not seem to have a clear idea of what sexual assault/rape is. I hate to break it to you but when anyone male or female is intoxicated, they cannot consent to sex. It doesn’t matter what got them in that state, whether it was alcohol or drugs, if one of the parties is intoxicated, then they cannot consent. In many states there are laws basically reiterate this. You act as if it is only females that this law is protecting but if a man was in the same situation, he would be able to prosecute his partner for rape as well.

“How are we men supposed to define were the woman should not be trusted in her judgment!?” If a women is unconscious and vomiting (Like in the observe and report scene) it is a sign that she will not be able to make clear conscious choice about consenting.

Also “Explain this view to all of the men that have been wrongly accused, prosecuted of date rape across the world and have lost their job, standing, visitation rights to their children, etc.” Just how many men do you think this is? I’m sure you have an anecdotal example of this, but how many men does this actually happen to? It is difficult to find concrete data as there are studies that say 2% and some that say 40%. But this fact really shouldn’t add anything to the argument about date rape anyway. People are falsely accused of murder but that doesn’t mean that we don’t take murder cases seriously. We shouldn’t stop persecuting criminals just because some people are falsely accused.

We are part of a culture in which rape is the only crime where we can ask questions about the victim’s involvement. If someone was robbed we don’t say “Oh well they left their doors unlocked/ lived in a bad neighborhood, so they deserved what they got. In a society where a study on junior high school students showed that 25% of boys and 16% of girls said a man had a right to rape a woman if he spent money on the first date and 65% of boys and 47% of girls thought rape was ok if the couple had been dating for 6 months (statistics from “Gender, Race and Class In Media”), we need to understand that as a culture our views of rape need to be seriously readjusted.

And when you talk about what feminists want, you’re slightly off there too. Feminists do not want the same power that men have, they want a system and a culture that does not judge people based on their gender/sexual orientation/skin color/ ethnicity or religion. Instead they want a system that allows people to be judged on their merits with equal opportunity for everyone. They would like women to be able to go out to a bar, get drunk and not get violated by anyone, no matter how drunk she is or who she slept with before or how she is dressed that night. Men’s power is not given to them because they deserve it or because they act more responsible. Why do men automatically gain this power and authority and women have to earn it?

And ALL directors deserve to be attacked personally. It’s art, it has to be personal.

Jenny, help me because I’m obviously misinformed, tell me if I raped this girl:

Last week I ran in Stacy, we barely knew each other except for work functions, but found ourselves alone at Club Louie waiting on friends. It was odd because I felt some energy between us before and tonight, with both of us dress to the nines, the energy was really strong. I think she felt it too. Anyway, we started talking about our mutual friends and really got in to drinking and gossiping. We were separated when our perspective parities arrived, but I could tell that she was disappointed not to continue the encounter. We had dinner and during desert I thought I saw Stacy watching me from across the room. Anyway, the two parties happened to meet at the coat check a few hours later and everyone was really feeling the affects of Club Louie’s wine cellar. I almost fell over the ushers rope helping the ladies with their coats. After flagging some cabs for all of the parents in the group, geesh, Stacy and I appeared to be the only ones left. We decided to head across the street to this dance club. It was really loud and crazy. So crazy we ended up hitting on a joint with a buddy of mine in the DJs green room. Long story short, I find myself at Stacy’s at like 3 in the morning. We start messing around on the couch and I’m suprised how drunk and sloppy we are getting. I mean my face is cover with Stacy’s saliva. She leads me back to room and after falling over a stack of old vinyls I find myself grinding on a girl I never would have believed would give me the time of day 8 hours ago. We are like half naked, half dressed when Stacy says “Fuck me.” I did as best I could but it had to be some of the lousest, whisky dick sex I have ever had.

The next morning I awake to Stacy yelling at me to get F out! It was a real horror show, she was throwing stuff at me and her roommate was dialing the cops. I tried to talk to her but it became apparent I should just get out of the apartment to at least get her to stop yelling.

A few days later I realized what Stacy was yelling about during my morning hangover, “You raped me you F’in bastard!” I know this because I just received a bunch of emails from mutual friends stating that she is pressing charges.

So Jenny, is this rape?

Can anyone tell me how the scene is?
Do they start having sex, she passes out, he doesn’t notice right away, notices, stops and asks if she’s still with him, she asks him why did he stop, he reacts by continuing.
Is that how it goes?
Cause if it is then I have no idea why people would yell out rape.
But then most of the people yelling the loudest haven’t seen the film and maybe just the 8 seconds they saw in the trailer.

Ok, I just saw this movie last night with my boyfriend. We both adored it. It had shades of the previously mentioned “Death to Smoochy,” as well as the Michael Douglas film “Falling Down,” which I also love. It’s an interesting set up to see people, damaged or not, being pushed to the edge of sanity by the heartless forces of their personal worlds. Those with a dark sense of humor, as well as those who have been pushed (well, maybe not THIS far) can enjoy these types of films. While Rogen’s character is disturbed, he is really trying to do what he thinks is right. He is looking for justice in what he perceives to be an unfair situation. People wanting nonsense chick-flicks-in-disguise a la “Knocked Up” will definently NOT like O&R and will be shocked at Rogen’s departure from his typical, cuddly persona.
Now about the date rape scene– it wasn’t particularly funny, not because it was offensive, but simply because it’s not funny. However, if these knee-jerk reaction nutjobs actually sat through the movie, they would know that this scene actually serves an important point in the character development of both Rogen and Farris’s characters. *SPOILERS* It guides the audience to see how incredibly unhinged Rogen is, since he believes the 2 of them have made love, and is devastated when he realizes she does not really see it this way at all. It also serves to showcase Farris as a vapid, stupid attention seeking skank who goes out with Rogen after exiting a car full of men, drunkenly sleeps with Rogen, and then breaks him by sleeping with his “enemy” (DOES NO ONE RECALL THE SONG PLAYING IN HER CAR IN THE BEGINNING?). Please, do not say I’m blaming the victim or calling her character into question to lessen the accusation of rape. It wasn’t rape. I think it’s doubtful that it’s intended to show Rogen as a rapist. It shows his detachment from reality in thinking that sloppy, tequila fueled sex = love and commitment.

“I hate to break it to you but when anyone male or female is intoxicated, they cannot consent to sex.”

Jenny, I hate you.

You are very wrong. You may consent to any number of things when you are intoxicated. The ONLY thing that matters is the OTHER persons HONEST and REASONABLE belief that you have, in fact, consented and their reliance upon that consent.

Now please, for the love of God,

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!