Film Junk Podcast Episode #592: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

podcast592

0:00 – Intro
14:15 – Review: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
1:01:20 – Spoiler Review: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
2:28:10 – Headlines: Transformers: The Last Knight Trailer, F8 of the Furious Trailer, Baywatch Trailer, Spider-Man: Homecoming Trailer, Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2 Trailer, Blade Runner: 2049 Trailer, The Mummy Trailer, Dunkirk Trailer
3:06:13 – Feature: What Makes A Christmas Movie
3:39:25 – This Week on DVD and Blu-ray / Outro

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  • Len F.

    Great ep. I haven’t seen the film and don’t plan to; I find your discussion of these films (and the marvel stuff) to be farrrr more interesting than the films themselves. So glad Greg and Dax were on this one. Merry Christmas to us!!

  • Jameson

    I understand they got permission from the estate, but obviously Cushing didn’t have a say in the matter. I

  • Jameson

    I haven’t seen Furious Seven, but as Sean says a lot of it was filmed with him and including his brother seem appropriate.

  • Reed Farrington

    My Christmas gift to everyone was not appearing on this podcast.

  • Reed Farrington

    My definition of a Christmas movie is any movie depicting the birth of Christ or any of his birthday parties before his crucifixion. So, in my mind, I also think that Die Hard is not a Christmas movie. But I do think that in most other peep’s minds, Die Hard is a Christmas movie by their own definitions.

  • Len F.

    Reed, you were missed. Happy Hanukkah to you sir.

  • Phil

    Has it been revealed how long the gap between Rogue One and A New Hope is? A few days? weeks? From what others have been saying online it seems like it could actually be only hours. Just curious if it has been officially answered.

  • Jay Cheel

    This comment is the perfect blend of a Martyr Complex with Munchausen Syndrome.

    “Munchausen Syndrome is an attention-seeking personality disorder in which an emotionally immature person with narcissistic tendencies, low self-esteem and a fragile ego has an overwhelming need to draw attention to his or herself and to be the centre of attention.”

    +

    “In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term victim complex, desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a psychological need, or a desire to avoid responsibility.”

  • Gerry

    What a terrible present Reed.

    Can’t you skype in to the show? Check out mic-w.com/product.php?id=3 and mic-w.com/product.php?id=5 for two ipod / skype friendly microphones.

    A pair of apple earbuds, using the inbuilt mic would do too.

    MacDonalds has great wifi, good enough for skype.

    Happy holidays.

  • schizopolis

    I thought it was a positive too and their deaths didn’t affect me deeply either. But I still loved the film for the other reasons I stated. Black Hawk Down received the same criticisms about characters, another film I love. The deaths are thematic.

    To be clear, the dividing line I’m talking about isn’t the deaths, it’s the fan service in the final minutes. I agree with you about the hallway scene. The whole scenario at the end still doesn’t make sense to me. Vader being alone, passing the disc from man to man, then from one ship to another like a relay race. It was poorly edited and conceived, in my opinion. But, I’m hearing a lot of people love the final minutes. It’s their favorite scene in the film. Hopefully after a couple rewatches, I’ll dislike it less.

  • schizopolis

    Whether you loved or hated Rogue One, your naturally contrarian viewpoints would’ve been welcomed by me for this episode.

  • Reed Farrington

    I have no reasonable excuse for not doing the podcast except that I have a Martyr Complex with Munchausen Syndrome. (See Jay’s comment.)

  • Reed Farrington

    So we ended our Cantankerous sessions not because you had cured me, but because I was a lost cause?

    (In all seriousness and not sure if I mentioned this on Cantankerous, but when I was in kindergarten, I faked having stomach aches in order to get out of uncomfortable social situations.)

  • Reed Farrington

    And a Happy Hanukkah to you, Len! Now I have to find where I hoarded my menorah.

  • Gerry

    Sounds like you need another Cantankerous therapy session to cure you then, with Sigmund Cheel counselling you.

    Now that would be a great present.

  • Jones
  • Sloth

    Dax’s impression of David Blaine was the funniest thing I’ve ever heard!

  • Jr

    Exactly. It should be extremely impactful that all of the main characters die but instead it’s just forgettable.

  • Tommy

    I would love a Reed/Frank show to take over from Cantan’. You two vibe great together.

  • I heard it’s 10 minutes & I think that was from Gareth Edwards.

  • I wonder if the original cut of Rogue One would have been more to Frank’s liking but Disney’s fear of the COPO led to the reshoots. I honestly love the final result. I do wish there would have been one good bonding scene with the Rouge One crew, pander away, throw it in a dark corner of a cantina!

    But back to Frank’s ideal Star Wars that goes in a different direction, I don’t think Disney is going to let that happen to any story taking place between Ep 1 through Ep 9 or however long this saga goes. I think his hope lies in Knights of the Old Republic.

  • ah

    If one of you guys don’t give Nocturnal Animals a 6/5, I’m going to be very disappointed. 2016 is almost over – you jokos need to stop pussying around and give out a 6/5 already! Pleeeeaaaassse!

  • no one important

    Great to hear Greg and Dax on the episode.

    Things I disliked about Rogue One.
    1) the robot
    2) the hope war room scene (that was unbelievably awful)
    3) the lazy master switch (so the master switch is on a console outside completely unprotected… Umm ok)
    4) constant reminders of the original trilogy. We want something new, why must you constantly regurgitate stuff from the other films. “I have a bad feeling about this.” Classic line resigned to a cheap joke.
    5) the destruction of Jedha and the resulting wave of destruction made sense and looked pretty cool. Why was it then reused at the finale. It made sense as they were not at the main city on Jedha but wouldn’t it make more sense to just destroy the base directly rather then aiming so far away from the base.
    6) the cgi humans. Computer generated eyes have no soul. They are creepy. When the princess turned up I thought we would just see her back which would have been perfect but when she turned around. It was just wrong.

    Things I liked about Rogue One
    1) I liked the characters. No, I felt the characters fit the story they were in. I don’t think it would be appropriate for this story having a Fin or Rey. For example Jyns father built the death star, her mother was killed in front of her and she was raised by an extremist. She’s damaged. If anything this highlights how over fluffy the characters in The Force Awakens were, how desperate they were to make you fall in love with them.
    2) the action
    3) the music. Not sure I heard what Franks issue with the music was (will have to relisten) but John Williams original star wars music is probably the most widely know film music score ever. To step up and continue on is a monumental mission and I think Michael did a good job. What the hell were you expecting Frank?
    4) the robot dying.
    5) everyone dying

    Even though I seem to have more dislikes then likes I did enjoy it and gave it a four. I think though that might go down on a rewatch. Like Dax I had not seen the most recent trailers and the only part I noticed absent was the tie fighter on the tower bit.

  • Reed Farrington

    This would be analogous to George and Ringo forming a band. :-)

  • Tim

    Jay´s horrendous butchering of “Côte d’Or Carré Lait Noisettes” was almost beyond belief.

    Being that French is his second language it becomes even more shocking.

  • ReelJunkie

    I enjoyed Rogue One way more than you guys. Sure some of the characters felt under developed but I was totally behind them as a rag-tag gang of rebels and I cared when they kicked the bucket. Plus the film looked gorgeous and had loads of great action sequences. I barely remember anything significant from the trailers so the reshoot stuff didn’t bother me at all.

    I thought all the pandering stuff you guys kept ragging on about was actually kept to a bare minimum. This was Disney testing the waters with a new type of SW film without Jedi’s and Sabers and it worked out quite well for them. I feel like moving forward we’ll see more diverse and stand alone stories in the future set in the SW universe.

  • Patrick

    The nitpicking in this episode was both legendary and astonishing because it so closely mirrored the fanboy complex of the past decade the podcast has so well mocked. A fanboy complex is not merely unreflective hype, but an inverse tendency to hyperanalyze inane details (seriously Frank, moons in Star Wars are a problem for you?) I would never stop listening to this podcast, and the episode was great listening, but I was truly disappointed, in Jay especially. You were the chosen one! From my perspective the “Star Wars’ Stories” are meant to inform the operatic “episodes” and the fact that they can diverge in tone from the originals and new generation. They are still working out how to do that well, and for what they did get right I am more than happy to give them a generous review. Granted I do feel the re-shoots were a misstep and the shift in character from what was an undoubtedly radical/cynical resistance fighter, skeptical of the weaker less committed rebellion in Jen Urso to the likeable convert was less interesting. I won’t bother to address most of the nitpicks as they truly are not worth a rebuttal. Suffice it to say, the overwhelming majority of criticisms committed by the film are also committed in the original, albeit with limited special effects. Not to mention Dax does a great job countering the ridiculous quarrels but as he was outnumbered was forced to dial them back or else face the mini COPO present in F, S, J, and G, or be rudely ignored/talked over, as he certainly was. For shame boys, for shame.

  • CraigW

    “You were the chosen one!” lol!

  • lovke

    In honour of this 8th installment, I have put together my Top 50 Star Wars Moments. Unless you have a soul crushing desk job, you probably dont have two hours to put together such a list. Fortunately, I have precisely this kind of job. So here we go. These are moments not scenes, so the same scene could produce multiple great moments.

    50. The destruction of Jeddah as Krennic marvels “its beautiful” and the debris from explosion climbs into the atmosphere in seeming slow motion (Rogue One)
    49.Ewoks unleash two logs from the left and the right that swing and meet in the middle crushing the hull of the mini forest Imperial walker. (Episode VI)
    48. BB-8 gives thumbs up to Finn on millenium falcon (Episode VII)
    47. Sonic boom detonators from Jango Fett during asteroid battle with Obi Wan (Episode II)
    46. Rey finds Luke atop the mountain at the end of Force Awakens with amazing John Williams score playing. Luke’s bearded beaten face looks back at Rey as she holds out light sabre as credits roll.
    45. First time they reveal massive scale of the Galactic Senate with endless rows of pods which detach when a senator has the floor to speak. Also that amazing sound effect that comes with it. (Episode I)
    44. Opening shot of A New Hope as Star Destroyer covers the screen and goes on and on (Episode IV)
    43. Droid Army fires opening shots which ping harmlessly off the Gungan shield (Episode I)
    42. Leia and Wicket first meet on the tree stump. Wicket is suspicious until Leia pulls out food, and Wicket takes a seat beside her. (Episode VI)
    41. Emporor details how screwed the rebels on Endor and outside the death star are, scoffs at the “insignificant rebellion” and lures Luke into reaching for his lighsabre and attempting to strike the Emperor down only to be blocked by Vader’s blade (Episode VI)
    40. Luke tests out his new hand at the end of Empire (Episode V)
    39. Medal ceremony at the end of A New Hope and Chewy’s howl as music crescendoes and wipes into closing credits (Episode IV)
    38. Millenium Falcon/Tie fighter chase through the Asteroid field in Episode V.
    37. Luke chops front end of speeder bike, causing it to spin into a stump and a firey explosion (Episode VI)
    36. Lando betrays Han and Leia by delivering them to dining room where Darth waits at end of long table and disarms Han easily. Door closes behind them. (Episode V)
    35.Han splits open Tantan to give Luke a warm place to rest as he builds shelter. (Episode V)
    34. In second death star space battle, millenium falcon flies through a sea of tie fighters that break as it passes through. Still my favourite FX shot of the original trilogy.(Episode VI)
    33. Han alone in the cockpit of the millenium falcon smiling like a schoolkid (Episode VII)
    32. Han Solo shoots Vaders ship, yells “come on kid, lets blow this thing and get out” and Luke fires decisive shot to destroy the Death Star.(Episode IV)
    31.Luke fires harpoon up at bottom of AT-AT walker, ascends in the air, slices a hole in machine with light sabre, throws a grenade and dislodges as AT-AT blows up and falls to snow
    30. Luke resists Vader’s pitch, lets go of the rafter and tumbles into the pits of Cloud City (I choose to ignore the edited Luke yell).(Episode V)
    29. Yoda rummages through Luke’s stuff tossing items aside and then fighting with Artoo for flashlight, swatting the droid with his walking stick.
    28. Paplatine tells the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise at the Opera, and licks his lips as he recounts how Plagueis apprentice killed him in his sleep
    27. Rey and Finn discover they are in the presence of Han Solo. Rey says “the war hero”, Finn says “you mean the smuggler”, to which Chewy just shrugs his shoulders. (Episode VII)
    26. First time Darth Vader force chokes an underling and hisses “Apology accepted Admiral…” (Episode V)
    25. Kylo Ren impales Han Solo with his light sabre and Han reaches out and brushes the cheek of his son (Episode VII)
    24. Han about to be put into carbon freeze. Leia says “I love you” Han says “I know”. (Episode V)
    23. After a day of scavenging, Rey sleds down the sand dune with her daily catch (Episode VII)
    22. In wintry forest climax in Force awakens, Kylo Ren reaches out for Luke’s light sabre only to watch it sail past him into the hands of Rey who ignites the blue sabre against the darky snowy forest with force theme playing.
    21. After striking Obi-Wan down, Darth Vader kicks at empty cloak as Luke yells Nooooo from across the hangar.
    20. Star Destroyer hovers over city of Jeddah in best single image of Imperial dominance in entire saga (Rogue One)
    19. Padme and Anakin separated across the city in their respective Coruscant towers wait as Anakin contemplates whether to go to save Palpatine as John Williams haunting, discordant dread music plays
    18 Han decides to go confront his son on gantry at end of force awakens to fulfill promise to Leia that he’ll try even though he knows he’s going to get killed. He yells “Ben”.
    17. Darth Vader unleashes hell on Rebel soldiers trapped in hallway at end of Rogue One. Specifically, guy who gets thrust at ceiling and guy who gets impaled through the door and guy who screams in terror through window. (Rogue One)
    16. Obi Wan pacing like an enraged tiger behind the pink force field while Darth Maul fresh off his kill of Qui-Gon sits on knees waiting patiently, and then force field goes down and incredible flurry of light sabre awesomeness ensues (Episode I)
    15.Han and Leia flirt in passageway of Millenium falcon as she tries to weld something “Scoundrel, Scoundrel?” “I like nice men”, ending with C3P0 interrupting kiss.
    14. Rogue squadron fires harpoons at the legs of the At-At walker, wrapping it in a tangle and watching it collapse.(Episode V)
    13. Montage of Baby Leia and Baby Luke being hidden on Alderaan and Tatooine respectively ending in double sun twiight shot
    12. After Yoda’s furious whirling dervish of a light sabre battle with Dooku he force pulls his walking stick into his hand and hobbles away old man style. (Episode II)
    11. Two star destroyers collide into each other and then through shield generator above the skies of Scarif in climax of Rogue One.
    10.Order 66 montage – amazing haunting tragic music, new planets,…(Episode III)
    9. The reveal of the “piece of junk” millenium falcon in Force Awakens as Finn and Rey look for a ship to escape in.(Episode VII)
    8. Darth Maul unspools double light sabre beams in cargo hold (Episode I)
    7. Yoda lifts X-Wing out of the swamp to his theme song, Luke in disbelief and Yoda ending with “That is why you fail”.
    6. Rey prepares expanding bread dinner and sits at foot of fallen At-At walkers eats dinner with star fighter helmet and watches ships leave Jakku (Episode VII)
    5. As Emperor shoots blue lightning at a fallen Luke, Darth picks up the Emperor and throws him down shaft only to get force sprayed by ensuing blast (I ignore the added Noooo)(Episode VI)
    4. We cut from Padme and insurgents scaling wall of Naboo palace to…. Darth Maul/Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan fight as Duel of the Fates crescendoes in choral glory mid-way through the fight and camera hovers over walkways with beams of light refracting on camera lens. Chills. (Episode I)
    3. Darth Vader reveals to Luke “No, I am your father” on gantry in Cloud City (Episode V)
    2. Luke climbs ridge and watches double sunset on Tatoooine wondering if he’ll ever get off planet. (Episode IV)
    1. Obi Wan standing over the burning legless torso of Anakin yelling, “You were my brother…” (Episode III)

  • lovke

    Also thought it was amusing given the very valid critique of the Marvel films on every filmjunk review that they all feel the same. So very surreal to reconcile that mantra with two hours of “this didn’t feel like star wars to me” nonsense. That being said, the boys on a bad day are 10x as entertaining as other podcasters on good one.

  • Glen

    Here’s a link to Dax’s weekly webcomic “Forest Folk”

    http://forestfolkcomic.com/

  • Sean

    So we should give it a generous review just because it’s Star Wars and automatically gets the benefit of the doubt? That seems a bit silly, although if anything, I think we did. I get that the nitpicking can be annoying when it’s something you love but I tend to think we are mostly joking. Frank is not literally subtracting stars because of the overabundance of moons. (Well, okay, maybe he is.)

  • Dwight Gabadon

    They had the same discussion on the Kermode and Mayo podcast, they came to the conclusion that there are 3 distinct types of Christmas movies: 1. Christmassy films (heavy on the Christmas themes… Reindeer, Santa etc.) 2. Christmas films (set at Christmas but not Christmassy) i.e. Die Hard, Lethal Weapon 3. FIlms neither Christmassy nor set at Christmas but still associated with Christmas (often shown at Christmas) i.e WIzard of Oz

  • Dwight Gabadon

    TLDR

  • ReelJunkie

    I loved the episode but there were a lot of baseless criticism riddled throughout the review. I was rolling my eyes when Jay said the Vader climactic scene felt out of character… like what! Glad Dax was there to counter some of the points.

  • pcch7

    I’d love more Cantankerous

  • Jay Cheel

    How is questioning a character’s motivations (especially a character who is central to the first six of these films) a baseless criticism? I suppose if an action sequence is AWEESSOOMMMEEEEE (which I agreed it was) you shouldn’t even think about questioning whether or not it feels right for the character.

  • Jay Cheel

    Just curious what my major nitpicks (not criticism, nitpicks) were. I really don’t recall.

  • Jay Cheel

    Surely you can’t be suggesting that if we criticize or praise something in one movie or franchise, that means it must automatically trickle down to every other franchise or movie without any additional thought or consideration? Just because I love Jim Carrey’s performance in Ace Ventura doesn’t mean I would love that same performance in The Godfather. It’s all about context.

    In this case, obviously I like the original Star Wars movies more than I like the Marvel films, so of course I would have different feelings and potentially stronger criticisms about Rogue One than I would Captain America: Civil War.

  • ReelJunkie

    As Dax pointed out in the review that it doesn’t feel out of character at all. The reason Vader flipped out is because something extremely important to the Empire got stolen. If there was ever a time for Vader to completely lose his shit, it would be then.

  • Jay Cheel

    And ten minutes later (as we’re now hearing), he’s sending in Stormtroopers to do the dirty work as he lumbers through the corridors after the fact. “Commander, tear this ship apart until you’ve found those plans and bring me the passengers. I want them alive!” So I guess he’s done tearing ships apart then? He’s cooled down a bit and no longer losing his shit? He’s handing the reigns over to the people who aren’t capable of simply ripping everything apart with their mind?

    His hallway moment in Rogue One is inconsistent with the Vader we meet throughout the following three films. I’m not sure why this observation would ever be considered a nitpick.

    And yes, it’s the Yoda lightsaber moment. Let’s retcon the physical attributes of a character now that we have the tech tools to do so. Why? Because it looks so cool! DUH.

  • Bill

    Vader from Empire Strikes Back couldn’t do what Vader did in Rogue One? Comparing that to the insanity of Yoda’s lightsaber scene is a stretch.

  • Matt Thephotoman

    Merry Christmas Film Junk buddies! A huge thanks for all the time and effort you guys put in to bringing us your brilliant podcast every week , long may it continue. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/253064b83eddee663a875c7fd2ee9af4bfe5d0a25a4ba208c75e412d96d84e2b.jpg

  • Jay Cheel

    It’s not about whether he could or couldn’t in Empire. It’s that he doesn’t.

    You’re saying Yoda in Empire couldn’t do what Yoda did in Attack of the Clones? (The answer is, again, not about whether he could or couldn’t. It’s that he doesn’t.)

  • ReelJunkie

    I’ll give you that the Vader scene panders to fans but that’s not all it does. To me it actually makes sense in context of the plot. I can’t say the same for the Yoda scene. The latter doesn’t work for more than one reason. First off, the dude is tiny and seeing him fight Dooku looks ridiculous. Secondly, I never saw him to be some kickass Jedi. He was always more of a monk.

    Vader on the other hand had shown himself to be ruthless in the past films so its not a stretch, in my books, to see him flip out. I’m sure we’d have gotten more of this Rogue One Vader if special effects were so easily implementable back then. Also, I think the timing is very important here too. In many ways the stealing of the Death Star plans represents the beginning of the end for the Empire so it felt natural for Vader to take it personally… hence the lashing out.

  • Bill

    But you said it was retconning the physical attributes of the character. Why? Vader was able to walk forward while waving a lightsaber in the original trilogy, as well as move things with the force. The blast helmet training scene in New Hope already established that Jedi are trained to deflect blasts with their sabers, so obviously Vader would have that skill.
    “It’s not about whether he could or couldn’t in Empire. It’s that he doesn’t.”
    So he’s not allowed to do anything new in Rogue One that he didn’t do in 4-6? Even if it is in line with his physical ability?
    Not saying the Yoda thing wasn’t within the realm of possibility for the character, it just felt very superfluous and jarring because we’d only seen him hobble around very slowly and never hold a lightsaber up to that point. Very different than Vader just moving a little faster than he had in previous films and fighting someone other than his previous mentor and his son (both of which he’s probably going to hold back on a little).
    Even Mr. Fantastic would say you’re stretchin’, Jay

  • Patrick

    I agree with Bill here: simply because he didn’t do it in 4-6 he can’t do it in Rogue? That’s an example of the nitpicking I was referring to…

  • Niklas

    Surprised at the review of this. I loved it from start to finish. 5/5

  • Niklas

    So why does force awakens get a pass?

  • Mrespony

    I read some of the comics Marvel put out after the Disney purchase of Lucasfilm. There were a slew of titles over the last two years, most notably a Darth Vader run that had him creating all sorts of mayhem that went well beyond what you see at the end of Rogue One. I think this just comes from this feeling that we’ve never seen Vader go “balls out” as Jay would say. He always had the countenance and stature of a bad ass, I think people just needed to see him goes Jules Winnfield on some mufuckas.