Film Junk Bonus Podcast: Movie Organization Manifesto, Part 2

DVD Manifesto

This is it people! The second and final episode of the Movie Organization Manifesto is about to change the way you think about movies. This time around we revisit the contentious topic of genre sorting within a DVD collection and whether or not the simplicity pure alphabetization sucks the enjoyment out of life. We also introduce some new and exciting organizational concepts such as ‘the seasonal shelf’ and the always controversial ‘juicing’. Finally, we do our best to answer your listener emails and help a few friendly folks resolve some frustrating roadblocks faced on their quest for the perfect collection. Se7en before Seabiscuit? Numeric vs. Alpha-Numeric? In the immortal words of Judge Mills Lane: “Let’s get it on and get it decided!”

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  • Mason

    If you think the Criterion Collection has to be arranged separately, then you are falling for their marketing strategy. It must have went like this “Just put the word collection in our name and people will feel they need to own all of our releases.” One of the most unique thing CC does is sometimes do some restoration to the old films they release on home video. But other companies do that too, occasionally. They were the first home video company to offer special features back in the laserdisc days, but now everyone does that. The only other reason I can see to put them separately is that the box art is newly re-done for their releases. If it’s unique enough to have it in it’s own gallery, than I see Jay’s point. Go the extra mile and frame them and hang them on the wall. Otherwise, intermingle them.

  • bard

    After listening to this episode, I’ve come to one conclusion: A manifesto for movie organization is impossible.

    There are too many gray areas that cannot be confined with simple rules. I would go so far as to say that Jay doesn’t necessarily want a manifesto. The moment he said that he wants his collection to have “character” (or whatever the word was) it throws the idea of having strict organization rules out the window.

    I’m not complaining one bit, these two specials are incredibly hilarious. Just thought I would throw my two cents in.

    I know you guys said you weren’t going to do another one, but I’d love to hear another episode a few months from now to see if you actually changed your collection in any way.

    Thanks again for the great show.

  • Vikke_AJ

    Criterions should always be separate (and in numerical order if possible). If they would have released them in normal blue cases then I would understand if people want to mix them up but with these clear cases it is just crazy talk :)

    Truth be told, I don’t really care about any other sorting methods… I prefer completely random chaos. Just keep different formats and Criterions (and possibly Masters of Cinema releases) separate.

  • fatbologna

    Vikke_AJ,

    AGREED!!

    Mason,

    It may be that you’re taking Criterion for granted in your assessment. If it weren’t for them most of the films they’ve released over the years would have gone unseen. The reason they’re so amazing and collectible isn’t because of the packaging, extras or transfers, although all of those elements are obviously part of the deal, it’s the very fact that you get an opportunity to see the movies they distribute.

    I also do have a tendency to separate by distributors within my genres. Blue Underground, Panik House, Synapse, Severin, HVE and others often get lumped together or within the same vicinity in my organized chaos.

  • Dennis

    I’m with Vikke_AJ on keeping the Criterion Collection separate and ordered by spine number. I do this for any brand that numbers their releases – MoC, Oscilloscope, Second Run, etc. – if I plan on collecting most or all of their titles.

    As for alphanumeric ordering, how consistent are you, Frank? Does it only apply when the first word in the title is a number? Would you place Superman 3 before Superman 2? Just wondering.

  • Jeff

    Thanks for the specials.

    Every debate you guys had could be resolved by simply buying more than one copy of the troublesome movie:

    Can’t decide which genre section to put it in? Buy one for each genre you’re debating.

    Can’t decide where in the alphabet to put it in? Buy one copy for each spot you’re debating.

    Disperse your Criterions in w/ the collection or have a separate section? Buy two copies and do both.

    Canadian release has better picture quality but suffers from French titles? Buy a copy of the US release and put the Canadian disk in it.

    Done and done. You guys already spend a ton of money on movies, why not spend just a bit more and have the dream organization in which any debated movies are located in every possible location?

    jb

  • Jeff

    Also, does Frank have an insurance rider on his renter’s or homeowner’s insurance policy to cover his collection?

    If it burns or gets stolen, it is unlikely that a typical policy would cover the full replacement value of such a collection.

    Frank rocks either way. Love me some Frank.

  • Insurance policies have lump sum on interior contents. I know this because I work out of a home/office and have a lot invested in cpus and entertainment. I did a spread sheet and use it to keep serial numbers of equipt. and the number of dvds etc. Simply put, if you have the basic insurance but have not checked if all your equipt., cloths, dvds, VALUE will be covered by the lump sum payout after a fire, flood you could be screwed. If u have a huge collection like Frank you may need to call up insurer and go up in lump sum. (I sent the spread sheet to insurer to put in my file so there would be no problems in the event of loss)

  • RC

    I agree with Fatbologna. No organization = freedom
    Just fly by the seat of your pants.

  • kyri

    I don’t believe we are even having this debate. Frank is a turd. If he only agreed on the genre issue FILMJUNK would have concluded to a manuscript, and EPISODE 3 would have been the debate about GENRES. instead. (because frank is a turd) the negotiations ended abruptly and a great premise for a Movie Organization Manifesto remains unfulfilled.

    NEVERTHELESS I LL put mine outthere in a desperate hope to inspire a PART3:

    M.O.M
    [MOVIE ORGANIZATION MANIFESTO]

    (Part 1.0)

    RULE 1. MOVIES ARE TO BE PUT ON A SHELF AND KEPT IN THEIR CASES no binders no hard drives no steaming/streaming websites.
    MOVIES ARE TO BE PUT MIXED AND RANDOMLY AT FIRST.
    COLLECTIONS GO TOGETHER
    RULE 2. MOVIES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE PLACED HORIZONTALLY UPON OTHER MOVIES THAT ARE PLACED VERTICALLY. this is strictly forbidden.

    {expansion needed}

    (Part 1.2)

    [ONCE THE COLLECTION STARTS TO GROW]

    (100-500 specimens)

    DVDS AND BLURAYS MUST NOW BE SEPARATED
    TV AND FILMS MUST BE SEPARATED AS WELL

    (500-1000 specimens)

    FILMS MUST NOW BE SEPARATED INTO GENRES

    GENRE-SEPERATION

    HORROR
    COMEDY
    SCI-FI
    DOCUMENTARIES
    SPORTS
    WRESTLING
    PORN
    MUSIC
    REST OF FILMS
    FILMS FROM SPECIFIC DIRECTORS MUST GO TOGETHER AS WELL
    {THE LIST OF DIRECTORS IS DEBATABLE AND WILL BE DECIDED ON PART 3}
    COLLECTIONS MUST GO TOGETHER as well.
    for example
    Criterion FILMS go together. HENCE THEY ARE A COLLECTION
    JAMES BOND FILMS MUST GO TOGETHER HENCE THEY ARE A COLLECTION

    ACTION/THRILLERS and DRAMA are not REAL GENRES therefor DO NOT DESERVE a SEPARATION. THEY FORM the “REST OF FILMS” section of the collection

    (Part 2.0)

    [GENRE-ALPHANUMERICAL SEPARATION]

    Once the collection surpasses 2000 specimens
    an alphanumerical separation must occur.

    Henceforth all sections of the collection must be reorganized.

    {expansion is needed}

    PART 2.1

    [JUICING]
    You must now De-Juice your collection.
    (Otherwise how can you sleep at nights?)

    distorted cases
    empty cases
    burned DVDs
    pure taste dvds
    BAD MOVIES
    ALL NEED TO BE THROWN AWAY or REPLACED.

    {expantion needed}

    Part 3.0

    [GENRE CRITERIA]

    THIS WILL BE DECIDED ON PART 3

    what makes a horror film ?
    what goes to comedy?
    what goes to sci-fi?

    The removal of action-drama-thriller categories removes most of the Grey areas, but still a clarification is needed.

  • Fatbologna

    Sorry, Kyri, your manifesto is as much a failure as Jay and Frank’s!

    This topic is far too personal and nebulous for anyone to ever agree on. The most that can ever come of it is a list of general guidelines for people to follow at their leisure. Frank’s fascist approach will never work for everyone, nor Jay’s “on-the-fence” half-assed approach or complete chaos. People need guidance but not complete dominant direction.

    I think we’ve learned a valuable lesson here these last couple days: DVDs are just as unique as the folks who own ‘em.

  • kyri

    HAHA, indeed mate, I don’t really use a manifesto, it’s just for the sake of entertainment that I posted it, I mean I do separate my films by genre from now and then, but they’re mixed up later, my little sister uses my collection, she borrows films to her friends.. And ofcourse it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to EVER sort them alphanumerically.

    ..it’s actually a pretty disgusting thought

  • I don’t think I ever mentioned the fact that although my DVD’s were separated by certain genre’s, my blu rays always remained mixed and alphabetical. Not sure why, but it’s probably a numbers game. I just have a lot of horror and documentaries on DVD.

    Also, regarding the strict alphabetization of the collection: I’m not against it but it begs the question…if the only thing allowed within a collection is alphabetization, what’s left to be said? The conversation is then dead and the fun of discussing the minutia is killed.

    I’m not totally against mixing everything into one big A-Z wall of media, but the prospect of talking about it is certainly not very interesting (which makes me think the act of doing it is equally uninteresting).

  • were is Frank and his response? I’d really like to hear from him how he addresses his “in the mood moments” does he just sit on the couch and go through his head of all his horror films…wait, he doesn’t like “jumpy” films so bad example. Looking at my collection now I really don’t think alpha would work – I totally go by feel.

  • Henrik

    Maybe I’m as a dork as Frank, but I don’t think it makes any sense to sort by number-value. We’re sorting by symbols to begin with. Sorting by value is like sorting by most used words, so “Go!” would be first or something…

    Though I have no sorting at all, the best I ever did was put all the DVDs on a shelf without giving a shit about the titles, but usually they are all over the place. But I only have like 1-200 so I’m not even at a real ‘collection’ yet. I take it back, Frank is a bigger dork than me.

  • Bas

    I just counted and I’m just over the 200 mark, but proud to say there is barely any juicing going on (and there are few things I hate more than receiving a shitty movie as a gift that taints the collection).

    My dvd’s & blu’s are organized by genre, which works for such small numbers. If I’d ever went towards the 500 mark, I would say alfanumerical would be logical. But in any case ‘Batman Begins’ and ‘The Dark Knight’ are spooning like newlyweds.

  • kyri

    All my Criss nolan films spoon like newlyweds. Even his short film. I own the original CINEMA16 BOX-SET so I don’t know If that’s really Juicing.

    Anyway, like Jay said If the only thing allowed within a collection is alphabetization, what’s left to be said? The conversation is dead and the fun of discussing the minutia is killed. PART3 HAS NO REASON TO EXIST.

    BUT if FRANK (the turd) starts bending a little bit then maybe we can do business..

  • Loren Adam

    I did juice my collection recently when “blockbuster” was going out of business. I waited until the last day and I got all my dvd purchases for $1 each. They were all titles up my alley. Foreign, and non mainstream films. I got about 30 dvds for under $40. I don’t think this was juicing… I think it was smart buying. Anyways… keep up the great work!

    Pe@ce,
    Loren

  • Frank is chicken…bach bah! Jay should film one of his and Franks “in the mood” moments

    – Frank sitting on the couch racking his brain trying to remember all the films he owns from that particular genre or director

    – Jay prematurely ejaculating as he runs his hand over the overwhelming filmography presenting itself in one section of his collection

  • You guys really popped it this episode. Completely loving this. Please do a part 3.

  • Not sure if we actually fully discussed this in the episode but you can easily rectify your “in the mood” moments with a DVD collection database that can be sorted by genre. No need to physically store everything in a way that facilitates those special situations.

  • dirrrtyfrank

    Regarding my ‘in the mood’ decisions.

    My inspiration doesn’t usually start from ‘I want to watch a movie’, my inspiration usually comes in a few different forms:

    1. ‘I HAVE to watch right now!’

    2. ‘ is coming out in a week or two and I’m really excited, I want to revisit past works/entries.

    3. I’m juiced … it’s 3AM… break out Cape Fear/Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure/Alien/Nothing But Trouble

    To summarize, I’m usually inspired to watch a particular movie, not a movie in general, and that would explain why I’m bigger on alphabetization over genre.

  • dirrrtyfrank

    Sorry that post turned out completely wrong … i had brackets used by html in there and it fucked it up …

    Regarding my ‘in the mood’ decisions.

    My inspiration doesn’t usually start from ‘I want to watch a movie’, my inspiration usually comes in a few different forms:

    1. ‘I HAVE to watch (insert movie) right now!’

    2. ‘ (insert movie) is coming out in a week or two and I’m really excited, I want to revisit past (insert movie/director) works/entries.

    3. I’m juiced … it’s 3AM… break out Cape Fear/Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure/Alien/Nothing But Trouble

    To summarize, I’m usually inspired to watch a particular movie, not a movie in general, and that would explain why I’m bigger on alphabetization over genre.

  • I believe we are closing in on a resolution!!!!

    The Manifesto should be written that Genre/Director Sorting is allowed in online record keeping systems, that ARE A MUST for any serious collector due to record keeping, insurance, loaning, shopping questions. Basically, if you collect, the Manifesto will dictate you get with the program on APP system

    It should be decided if the filmjunk crew will allow you to choose:

    Option 1:Keep the physical DVDs in numeric/alpha and sort by genre/director online

    or

    Option 2: Keep the physical DVDs in genre/director and sort by numeric/alpha online

    Now we need Categories!!!

  • kyri

    wHaaaT? “online DVD collection database” .. I want to watch a freaking movie not get electrocuted. Furthermore the use of technology invalidates the entire point of having a real movie collection, because once you get to that road why not download everything? where you draw the line sean? furthermore the whole purpose of M.O.M is to be able to experience your collection on multiple levels.

    I don’t need a banker for movies in my basement just in case that the internet goes down.

    You sound like Reed.

    @Frank

    A point WILL come in your life that you will not have ..an obligation to watch films. A point will come that you ll have to live your collection. Experience it. interact with it. But your collection will be incapable.

    An empty soul in an empty room sorted alphanumerically..

  • I fail to see how using a DVD database is the first step to downloading your entire movie collection. It just gives you the flexibility of filtering your collection using any criteria you want since you cannot possibly organize your collection physically using all possible criteria.

    Even if you did group your movies by genres, what if suddenly you’re in the mood for a Jack Nicholson movie? Oops, too bad, you already sorted everything by genre. If you have a DVD database, you can just do a quick search and BOOM, you’re watching Jack.

  • dude, an online system allows u to “experience” your collection outside ur basement!

    U can show it off to chicks and others while out.

    Check on things when shopping.

    Restore ur collection when ur basement floods.

    Prove to your dirty uncle he still has ur Show Girls

  • Bas

    Not true, I returned it to Kyri last week.

  • kyri

    actually a flood destroyed my house 3 years ago, everything was gone and I.. started from scratch.
    nevertheless..
    Can this “Dadabase” work without the Internet?
    Let’s say the day we are all preparing has come, WW3 and all the shit. Other men are outside dying in massive scales for their countries and the remaining oil supplies..
    And we.. ..We are locked in our basements with our solar panels on the roof and our awesome movie collection to keep us comfort.

    The question is.

    Will I be able then to enjoy my collection on multiple levels?

  • kyri

    @Bas

    but the disk is missing..

  • no u can’t … and thank God u have your apocalypse movies in one section…

    its up to Filmjunk now, all sides have made their case…we await your orders Dark Lords from the Film Watching Regions of the North

  • I think if there are any future installments of the Manifesto that there needs to be a point where your organizational skills are put to the test. Have some friends come over or something and try to find stuff. Ask them to find certain things, if they can tell what your sorting theme is, if they would know where to look if they had something they wanted to find that they weren’t sure you had, stuff like that, to see what works best for other people that might not be as savvy to genres, filmmakers, or your own personal tastes.

    I personally sort alphabetically (though I do split up movies and TV) because a) it only makes perfect sense and b) I have parents, friends, and loved ones that are exactly like Frank’s dad. It’s the closest thing to foolproof as you’ll get, because while not everyone knows that Renny Harlin directed Die Hard 2, they can find the letter D.

    I also sort chronologically when it comes sorting by series, and it’s based on the original name of the series. For instance, Army of Darkness follows Evil Dead 1 and 2, Jason Goes to Hell and Jason X follow Friday the 13th, and Dark Knight follows Batman Begins, which follows the 80’s and 90’s films. If you’re sticking Dark Knight over in “D” (assuming you’re going alphabetically) on it’s own, or dragging Batman Begins over to “D” just for the sake of sticking it directly in front of Dark Knight, you’re kind of an asshole. If someone wants to watch a Batman movie, don’t make them go hunting elsewhere for it. Just put it with the other Batmans! I’m sure if I pick up Amazing Spider-Man in a year, I’ll stick it right at the end of the previous Spider-Man series since the series had already been established as “Spider-Man”.

  • kyri

    wow wow wow PlanBFromOuterSpace, your Test is invalid mate,

    yes not everyone knows that Ronny Harlin directed Die Hard 2 but certainly not EVERYONE knows the names of all action movies or all horror films or all comedies.. As you can realize your friends will be having a VERY difficult time finding “the new batman film” that is hiding behind ..Transformers3 on the lower section of your collection.

    But with genre-separation your friends will be having the time of their lives selecting the film they want to see but don’t know yet what it is. (not that anyone cares about them but anyway).

  • Hilarious stuff, guys! I almost wish it would continue!

    But, what this all comes down to is I think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the both of you are insanely OCD…. or insane AND OCD. Not sure which yet.

    The whole thing makes me want to sneak into your houses and secretly rearrange great swaths of your collections just to see if I could hear the scream of horror/rage from 2000 miles away. :P

    Seriously though, loved it!

  • starrman

    I am coming to grips with separation in my collection; in the spirit of a seasonal shelf. I propose having a Master Collection and keeping Sub-Collections separate. A specific genre, director, or sigh, the criterion movies can go together on a separate shelf.

    This doesn’t mean you can go overboard with sub-sections. I’m thinking two or three. It really depends on how big/complete you can make a sub-collection.

  • KeithTalent

    I am with Frank for the most part, but I separate my Criterion’s out for the exact reason that I throw away slip covers and never buy steelbooks or digi-books unless I absolutely must; I own two and will replace them with regular blus as soon as I can.

    The organization of my collection is all about aesthetics, so I keep all of the normal, proper blu-ray cases on their own (alpha-numeric of course) and all Criterions & boxed sets go in their own area on the end, both alphabetized in their own sections. They look very different and mixing them all together makes it look like shit to me.

    Most other things I do follow; TV and DVDs separate (and not even touching the blu-rays). No other groupings aside from boxed sets and Criterion.

    Excellent podcasts. Thanks for discussing this and sorting through the various questions that confound all of movie purchasers on a daily basis.

  • KeithTalent

    By the way, genre makes zero sense to me. If I have people over that want to watch a specific genre of film I just hand them my phone with the app open and the collection sorted by genre. There are far too many grey areas to do it with the actual collection. Alphabetical is cleanest and easiest to use, then use an app for any other sorting you need to do.

  • kyri

    What about people who own a lot of foreign films or live in countries like Germany that have different regions from the US. some movies have German titles some other English other have French because the film is French and other have Greek. or Chinese. It depends on the film and the country you live in. What Kind of manifesto is this? you should add a “North American” at the beginning. pardon me but I believe that a manifest must take under consideration global standards. or
    am I supposed to basically go against the law and buy movies from different regions just to serve the sorting?

    The Sorting is supposed to serve ME remember.?

  • When it comes to movies with titles in different languages, I would say it comes down to however you can best remember it for yourself, and that can take priority over what the actual title is on the spine. If you speak German and you’ve got a bunch of movie titles in German that you can understand and remember, that’s fine, but personally I’m not going to file The Good, The Bad and The Ugly under “Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo” even if that’s what the packaging says because I’ll never remember what that title is and where I filed it.

    Well, okay, I might remember that one… but you know what I mean.

  • cinekill

    So, when can we expect an agreed upon “Manifesto”? Sounds like there is still a lot of disagreement.

  • kyri

    If your DVD says “Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo”, you pretend to sort your films alphanumerically yet you choose to put it at .T.

    Then you are a racist.

    BUT with GENRE-alphanumeric separation you can hide it!

    ;)

    a french mate comes at your house n wants to see “Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo”

    -where is it seanny mate?

    -It’s right there là mate, juste à côté de l’autre westerns!!